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Post by lisajane on Jul 30, 2008 4:25:05 GMT -5
Well yes the story has to be finished first, otherwise all you're doing is copyrighting an idea, which can't be done.
I suggest before you consider publishing and copyrighting and everything, the story is written first.
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Thunderous
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They Have Pulled Down Deep Heaven on Their Heads
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Post by Thunderous on Aug 4, 2008 20:29:31 GMT -5
After finally reading Alaizabel I noticed how both it and Storm Thief seem to have similar philosophical points of view. (Everything is planned, fate, destiny, etc.) The allusions to fate and ironies of randomizing patterns in a fated world were what first lmade me enjoy and respect Storm Thief more than most other pop-fiction. Alaizabel also seems to have both some Christian and some anti-Christian ideas. I'm curious about the thought behind your writing; to put it bluntly, what do you believe about the world?
Edit: And one more thing, there was a chapter name in Alaizabel that was "The Puppets See the Strings" that caught my interest. Did you come up with that, or find it somewhere else? (I found afterwards a similar line in the Watchmen graphic novel, which is several decades older.)
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Post by Chris Wooding on Aug 5, 2008 4:00:04 GMT -5
It's interesting that you read it that way, because in my head the philosophical points of view are pretty much polar opposites in those two books. I got a bit obsessed with the idea of predestination which I worked out over the three successive books of THOAC, Poison and Storm Thief. Now I'm sick of it so I don't write about it any more ;D
SPOILERS
In Alaizabel, Devil-boy Jack reasons that can see the future because of the Pattern, which is essentially chaos theory writ large, that if you take a long enough view and have a distant enough perspective then what once seemed like a mass of coincidences becomes predictable, and even seemingly random events can be perceived as part of an overarching plan. This is his take on fate and predestination. It's encompassing the predestination argument of the major religions: 'if God allows a million people to die in Bangladesh, it's all part of a bigger plan, it's just too big for us to see it.' They were all fated to die anyway, and they had no choice in the matter.
In Poison, the whole Heirophant thing is discussed at length elsewhere on this forum, but it's much more of an Ancient Greek style god idea: ie there's a divine being that actively controls and messes with your life, but you can thwart him/her/it and take control of your own destiny.
In Storm Thief, there is no god, and certainly no fate or predestination. There's only random, meaningless events. The only through-line is what humans themselves create: how we choose to behave, without the help of any divine being. The whole thing about Storm Thief is that humanity can't evade its basic nature. Over and over again, no matter what the circumstances surrounding it, humankind as a whole reverts to the same behaviour (specifically, in this case, subjugation of the underclass). That's not fate in any divine sense. It's just anthropology.
As to 'The Puppets See The Strings,' it wasn't taken from Watchmen (though I am a big fan of that graphic novel, not much looking forward to the film tho...) Just a coincidence. To be fair, it's not a spectacularly original image anyway. See up the thread about coincidental plagiarism...
As to what I believe about the world, much too long to go into here. I think I said elsewhere that I don't want to discuss it on a forum anyway, first because it will colour reader's takes on my books, and second because nothing kicks off arguments like politics and religion. And I've been using the internet long enough to know that arguing on internet forums is possibly the single most useless and time-consuming thing ever...
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Post by shyviolet on Aug 5, 2008 6:37:10 GMT -5
I'm mildly relieved by that answer, I was starting to worry that you'd suddenly confess all and one of us would have to ask why you'd tell him now and not us when we asked before.
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Post by Chris Wooding on Aug 5, 2008 6:54:57 GMT -5
In which case I would cry 'Predestination!!!' and run
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Post by zemira on Aug 5, 2008 7:41:35 GMT -5
I thought the same thing when he asked that, lol. And I like that you won't answer it. Not because it means I can think of the books any way I like, it just seems appropriate that you wouldn't. ^_^ Besides, it's not wise for anyone in the public eye to express their views because they'll most likely lose many supporters by doing so. But that was an interesting answer. ^_^ I never really saw the "predestination" thing in Poison, so it'll make reading it more fun.
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Thunderous
Full Member
They Have Pulled Down Deep Heaven on Their Heads
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Post by Thunderous on Aug 5, 2008 17:19:28 GMT -5
That makes sense. It seemed to me that even though Storm Thief had the backdrop of complete unpredictability, there was still some fate guiding it all... the irony that even chaos is predestined seemed like a very clever twist to me. Too bad it wasn't even what you intended And, yeah, no matter what you had said there would have been somebody here who disagreed and argued *shifty eyes*
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Post by nicholai441 on Aug 7, 2008 17:42:50 GMT -5
speaking of fate and predestined.. what it is like being the person who controls what happens to the characters in your story? in a way, your their god. the controller of their fate. well you and the editor i guess. in a way if i remember correctly, poison mirrored that idea. right? about how some great power is writing our story. well, in more ways then one, your the great divine being of your stories. your the characters god okay, maybe that's getting a little too religious. but it makes sense. no? hm.. that would be an interesting book. don't know how it would work, but what if you or someone were to make a story where you the writer interacted in it. say if the character goes "god help me" you write something like "i bring forth a (insert something helpful or not) to help them". again.. not sure how that would work.
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Post by Maliris on Aug 8, 2008 6:30:13 GMT -5
@ nicholai: That would be fun but then again, the book would be over in a few pages. The characters would simply ask for A Doomsday Prevention Device, sit back, have a cup of tea and relax. I know I would. Given, however, that this all powerful entity was nice and helpful. If s/he/it was evil and mean, it surely would be rather entertaining. Reminds me of pen & paper RPGs... >_> Of course, you could always have a snarky narrator who mocks them and such. Or a depressed narrator. This is veering off topic. Apologies.
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Post by lisajane on Aug 8, 2008 23:06:27 GMT -5
hm.. that would be an interesting book. don't know how it would work, but what if you or someone were to make a story where you the writer interacted in it. say if the character goes "god help me" you write something like "i bring forth a (insert something helpful or not) to help them". again.. not sure how that would work. I can't stand authors who do that (Douglas Coupland for one). It makes them sound too conceited and I usually tend to stay away from further novels written by such authors.
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Post by shyviolet on Aug 10, 2008 7:25:07 GMT -5
I read a book that was almost like that once, it was written from the point of view of the main character's deity though. I think if the author interacted with it as the author either Lisa is right and it would sound really conceited, or it would ruin the suspension of disbelief by reminding the reader that it's fiction.
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Post by lisajane on Aug 10, 2008 20:52:42 GMT -5
On a similar topic, I also can't stand writers who write about characters who are writing a novel... this is just below my annoyance of writers who write themselves into the novel, and Coupland is guilty of doing both (his main character was writing a novel in which that main character was writing a novel...)
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Thunderous
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They Have Pulled Down Deep Heaven on Their Heads
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Post by Thunderous on Aug 12, 2008 21:08:25 GMT -5
I hadn't thought of anything like that before. I think, if well-written, it might be pulled off. I think it'd be better as a short story than a full novel though, I can't imagine the conflict necessary for a story when the narrator is omniscient and omnipotent...
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Post by nicholai441 on Aug 17, 2008 23:12:38 GMT -5
On a similar topic, I also can't stand writers who write about characters who are writing a novel... this is just below my annoyance of writers who write themselves into the novel, and Coupland is guilty of doing both (his main character was writing a novel in which that main character was writing a novel...) hm.. i never thought about how.. conceited it would look to write yourself into a story. i just did for three or four reasons: 1. there aren't very many heroes wearing glasses (although they seem to be making a come back (I.E. Hiro (from Heroes) and Harry Potter ) 2. not enough heroes with the name of Nicholai or Nicholas. (although in a way that seems to be making a come back as well) 3. the basic story of someone coming from nothing realizing a higher call to become something not sure if there's a fourth, but if there is, it has nothing to do with being conceited
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Post by lisajane on Aug 18, 2008 3:31:51 GMT -5
Nicholai, are you writing a fictional novel or a novel about yourself?
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