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Post by GhostEggplant on Oct 14, 2007 22:19:15 GMT -5
Ever thought of doing different stories in the same fantasy world (sorta like what Tamora Pierce sometimes/usually does)? Like, say, having a completely new bunch of characters run around in Orokos? *hint hint*
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Post by Chris Wooding on Oct 15, 2007 11:31:31 GMT -5
SPOILERS
Bit difficult, since Orokos is undoubtedly not Orokos anymore.
I tend not to revisit cos I like making up new ones, but never say never... well, except in the case of Storm Thief, where I can safely say they're never going back to Orokos - at least the Orokos as we all knew it.
Someone else asked somewhere about doing a Storm Thief sequel. I think it's pretty unlikely; as with Alaizabel and Poison, I sort of said all I wanted to say with that book, and so I'd rather do something new. All of my sequels so far have been planned from the start...
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valca
Full Member
Layer 18
Posts: 203
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Post by valca on Oct 15, 2007 12:39:48 GMT -5
As requested, I'll list my arguments for each of the series I have read:
But before that
SPOILERS
1. Broken Sky - One of the two that changes the most, the Dominions when under Macaan at the start does not appear to have changed over much at the end, people go about their daily business, not too bothered by the government except when it comes to taxes, admittedly they also have new lands to explore. Kirin Taq on the other hand is liberated from the control of Aurin, and the Keriags regain their independence, I will admit this is a change. The Netherfane goes on as always, and it did for most of the time during the series.
2. The Haunting of Alaizabel Cray - The Fraternity was a secret organisation, so when it was wiped out, nobody really noticed save those who were in it. London has to clean up the scars from when really bad things started happening, but that's just one city, and it is implied that even though the Old Quarter was lost, the rest was still there. Thaniel goes off to write a book, which probably wouldn't be world changing, just make things easier. Cathline is still hunting, as is Stitch-face. In the daily hum-drum life there doesn't seem to be too much of a difference.
3. TBP - The Weavers are dead, in their place is the Red Order. There are still the Baraks and families. Aberrants have life a bit easier, and everything returns to normal.
4. Poison - Poison becomes the Hierophant, it is merely her succeding the position offered to her. Poison's actions as the hierophant may well affect the entire world, but we don't know what she does. Rather, the book sets up a change for the entire world.
5. Storm Thief - As far as I am aware Orokos lost the probability storms, the spectre things (their name eludes me at present) and a few people. The few people who may or may not find land. Overall, lives have now just become more predictable.
This is not to say this is a bad thing, far from it, this is just how I perceive things.
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Post by Maliris on Oct 15, 2007 13:22:55 GMT -5
Me too, me too!
SPOILERS!!! For Storm Thief!!!
I think I have to object to the Orokos-part. The city represented something like a miniature world to those who lived in it. All they knew was this piece of rock with its dreadful propability storms and its confinement. They didn´t know anything else, nor did most of the people care about other possibilities like a world beyond the cliffs and rocks of Orokos. Their world was limited but it nevertheless was their world. Now at the end of the book, the protagonists sail away from a city that will most likely be changed utterly and rather brutally so. Their small world will never be the same. No one knows what became of the city or its citizens. Nor do they know what lies ahead, whether they find land or not. But the world in which they grew up is totally changed. Orokos lost its propability storms, true. But the last one was pretty much the end of the city as we know it. The end of that miniature world.
D: Anyone still with me?
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Post by Chris Wooding on Oct 15, 2007 13:23:32 GMT -5
MORE SPOILERSI guess this is a glass-half-empty glass-half-full kinda thing. I can't think of many books or stories in general which you couldn't say the same thing about: that everything goes on as normal in the background. Off the top of my head, let's say Star Wars, Lord Of The Rings, Gormenghast, Ender's Game, Shogun, etc etc etc... you could argue in all of these that the common man remained largely unaffected by the events played out, and everything returned to a form of normality at the end after the upheavals were done. In most stories things return to some form of equilibrium by the end, or it doesn't feel like an ending. But to look at the books another way: 1) Broken Sky. The Dominions are liberated from a tyrant and now have a democracy: admittedly you don't get to see the effect this has on people but it's still a huge change. Kirin Taq gets the same. Keriags get independence. A new land has opened up to explore. Yes, the Deliverers continue manipulating destiny from Netherfane as before but two worlds have now come together, Kirins and Dominion-folk are no longer separated... it's quite an epic change IMO. 2) Half of London is destroyed and the wych-kin pretty much wiped out from the city I dunno about you, but I'd notice if half of London was destroyed. (I'd notice that England was a marginally better place because of it). 3) TBP. Agreed, though that was pretty much the point of the book (the more things change the more they stay the same, humanity can't avoid its basic selfishness, etc). but they do now have the impending threat/promise of the Weave-whales and have become aware of the existence of a greater universe. 4) True, but isn't that quite a change? That, essentially, a new god has taken her place at the helm and now controls pretty much all of creation? 5) Orokos has been utterly and entirely changed into something totally different. The only thing that stayed the same are those that escaped from Kilatas, who may or may may not be sailing into a slow death from starvation. Everyone else could be dead or turned into glass mice or hanging upside down from trees by their ears. I guess it's just how you look at it, but short of destroying the entire world (as I've done in at least one book ;D ) I can't see how it could have changed more. Anyways, please don't think I'm being overly defensive or anything, I just like arguing Edit: just saw the post above. *high-fives Maliris*
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Post by Maliris on Oct 15, 2007 13:46:13 GMT -5
*has been high-fived* *happy dance* °w° Spoilers As for TBP and the other books: It´s the small changes that really matter if ye ask me. And yes, most of the time they´re something close to political changes. XD Yay for democracy! Or not so yay for the Red Order. If the world wasn´t recognizable at the end of the book, I dunno, but it would be strange... the reader wouldn´t know what to make of it. Mankind doesn´t like big changes. And given that you sometimes have to completely destroy something to change it, well, then every book would have a dark and desolate feeling to it. Oh and about Poison: We don´t know whether she will change something. The world as it is didn´t seem to please her much. XD She´ll probably add a few things, take some away, maybe even introduce a whole new race. That´s the beauty of it; telling stories that is. She´ll probably will change and redo some parts. But we won´t know as the book´s over.
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Thunderous
Full Member
They Have Pulled Down Deep Heaven on Their Heads
Posts: 210
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Post by Thunderous on Oct 15, 2007 17:26:16 GMT -5
Watch LOST? It's got some of the same themes that are in Storm Thief (and, from what I've heard, much of your other stuff as well.)
Read much contemporary literature from your genre? Just to see what other people are doing?
Also, what do you think is better for a first-time author, self-publishing in the hopes that some big company will discover it (as is the case with Eragon, or spending months and quite possibly years trying to get an agent, or trying to go directly to a publisher without an agent, or... *mouth keeps moving but only hot air comes out*
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Post by GhostEggplant on Oct 15, 2007 21:55:29 GMT -5
*picks random questions*
Favorite musical instrument?
Do you watch/read Death Note?
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Post by Chris Wooding on Oct 16, 2007 7:52:51 GMT -5
I watched it up until the middle of season 3 then gave up. Started out great but the writers clearly don't know what on earth they're doing. Anyone who says it was all planned from the start is just wrong: I know a guy who knows a guy Check this out if you have doubts: www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Unanswered_questionsIt would take an amalgamation of Agatha Christie, Raymond Chandler, William Goldman and Charlie Kaufman to haul that mess back together. There's too many plot holes and the story has drifted so much that I can't be bothered with it anymore. Which is a terrible disappointment as it was so brilliant at the start. Yeah, but only the stuff that interests me. Whether it be SF, fantasy or children's fiction, at least three-quarters of the stuff on the shelves isn't anything original. (Ooo, I'm in a grouchy mood today...) Definitely getting an agent. Going to a pub without an agent is pointless, since you'll need an agent anyway to negotiate how many chests of gold your precious book is worth. Self-publishing is always, always a bad idea. All you're doing is sidestepping the editing & selection process which is there in order to make sure that only writers of a certain standard get published. Otherwise the shelves would be full of unimaginable crap. Bookshops generally don't handle self-published books, so all you're doing is paying to print copies to give to your friends so you can say 'Now I R an ORTHUR!!!11!' It's hard to get a book published, so the idea is you go away and practise and do it over and over till you're good enough. I've never read a self-published book that was anywhere near decent (I haven't read Eragon btw: I saw the film and my eyes bled with horror, but I don't know what the book's like). My beautiful, beautiful natural woodstain maple-neck Stingray 5 bass *mmmmmmm* No, don't know what it is. My anime/manga (I assume it's that) knowledge has waned, I don't follow it so much any more... it all just got a bit too repetitive. < >
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Post by zemira on Oct 16, 2007 9:34:42 GMT -5
*resurrects topic of changes*
Spoilers~!
I agree with everyone (can I do that?). In most books, the comman man is not affected, no matter what cataclysmic even takes place. That's actually talked about a bit in a Fire Emblem game. The world is suddenly at war, but the small towns act as though nothing has happened because the war only involves nobility and those serving. Of course, they know what is happening, but they don't really care. The king/queen is just a faceless entity to them. The only way it affects them is in taxes and things like that.
But, I gotta say, Haunting did change at the end. The wych-invasion was quite obvious. And hundreds of people died. They were all just normal people. Afterward, the city needed to be fixed and families needed to grieve. Just like after a huge thunderstorm. There will be branches and floods, but given time, things can return to normal. But after an event like in Haunting, the time frame would be much bigger and most of those people would not live to see the final result. So, for them, the changes are very real and very obvious.
In The Crashing and Kerosene, the changes are more personal. Although, in Kerosene, the school is a bigger change. >_< Thus, they aren't really apparent to anyone else except that one person.
In Poison, I'm going with Valca. The population doesn't know about the Heirophant so if it changes, how would they know? Unless Poison would introduce new species or drastically alter the world, it stays the same. And even then, depending on how thorough Poison is, the population still probably wouldn't notice the changes. I mean, just look at the fisher-guy. He's stuck where he is, and he's kind of realized what happened to him, but that's because the previous Heirophant was lazy or didn't pay enough attention. Poison remembered that, so she may be better at closing the loopholes.
TBP, yeah, stays mostly the same. Replace one "evil" group with another. But again, most of the population will notice changes, if only in Aberrancy tolerance. And the effects on the land, and again, the people who died. The common people are affected, but time will fix that. (Note: I still haven't quite finished TBP, so I may be slightly off.)
Storm Thief---yeah, that's a big change, especially since the population knew about Probability Storms and knew the changes that happened when one occured. So, yeah, that's a major change all around.
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Thunderous
Full Member
They Have Pulled Down Deep Heaven on Their Heads
Posts: 210
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Post by Thunderous on Oct 16, 2007 17:19:15 GMT -5
Meh, LOST has only got two more seasons (I think) so I'm just gonna stick with it and see what they do. I think they had a basic idea of where they wanted to go, but got kind of sidetracked with a bunch of other stuff. Or maybe they'll pull everything together at the end thingyens-esque. *shrug* (I'm actually a member of lostpedia and have written (or heavily edited) several of the articles. ) And Eragon... pretty much sucked. It was amazing for a sixteen year old, but literary value = .001 The movie was indeed HORRIBLE *shudder* Favorite band of more than 20 years ago? EDIT: "thingyens-esque" above should be D!ckens-esqe, as in a certain English author from the 1800s. Apparently, though, the spam filter thought I was referring to a certain part of male anatomy. o_0
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Post by GhostEggplant on Oct 16, 2007 18:12:11 GMT -5
Watch it. It's brilliant in just about every way. Is there any romance in The Fade? *can't remember if this has been answered yet*
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Post by bluephoenix on Oct 18, 2007 21:40:56 GMT -5
damn, I missed an awesome convo. but everything I could want to say was said.
Though I will add my favorite idea for wooding fanfiction is saying what happened to ORO after the stroms. (would you mind terribly?)
also, chris...how does one hang upside down by one's ears?
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Post by Chris Wooding on Oct 30, 2007 16:08:01 GMT -5
That'd probably be Iron Maiden, cos they were my favourite band growing up. I just don't seem to like much old music. I tend to appreciate it rather than enjoy it...
Yep!
Go for it.
Carefully.
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Post by lisajane on Oct 30, 2007 19:47:38 GMT -5
Of course, they know what is happening, but they don't really care. The king/queen is just a faceless entity to them. The only way it affects them is in taxes and things like that. Sure they care. One say little wrong treason-like comment in Broken Sky in the wrong place at the wrong time, and find yourself and your family down in the mines forever, and possibly your town/village burnt down.
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