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Post by shyviolet on Aug 26, 2007 10:25:01 GMT -5
Aurin wasn't an adult and her own person, she was so used to getting her own way that while she was technically an adult she was a complete child inside. She was unbelievanbly naive through most of her time with Ryushi. She might be intelligent, but she had a total lack of common sense.
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Post by camybaby on Aug 26, 2007 11:09:14 GMT -5
I would say that Aurin is an adult, just because parts of her were not emotionally mature (and the fact that she was so spoilt you wanted to slap her lol) she was very intelligent and did comprehend the choices she made i.e. that ordering some one to be killed, meant that they would be killed
If she was a complete child inside then was it ethical for Ry to pursue a romantic involvement with her? He is defiantly an adult.
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Post by shyviolet on Aug 26, 2007 11:34:39 GMT -5
Ryushi wasn't an adult, he was closer to it than Aurin, but he was still a teenager. She did understand what she was doing, but she was so used to being spoiled and protected that I don't think she understood the consequences of her actions. She knew she was ordering people to be killed and that they would be killed, but she hadn't stopped to think if it was an appropriate punishment or anything.
I don't mean she was a child inside like she didn't understand about relationships, I mean she was a child like she didn't understand the reality of it and that people who weren't afraid of her would be a lot more dangerous to deal with. Besides, it wasn't ethical for Ryushi to persue a relatonship with her anyway, she's their biggest enemy in that part of the story!
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Post by camybaby on Aug 26, 2007 12:41:43 GMT -5
Well I think that she is too old and too intelligent to use ignorant as an excuse. Though since her father could kill her with a thought I suppose she couldn’t really be rebellious in her ruling.
Aurin is the same age as Calica and she is an adult, they wouldn’t give a lot of political and military power to some one who was basically a child. Also Calica, Aurin, Ryushi are all down the older teenage spectrum, in the UK you are an adult at 16 and can do things like drive at 17. The notion of being a teenager is a relatively a new thing. In older societies there were just children and adults. As soon as you turned 12, 13 you were an adult. It wasn’t until things like reforms in education, and work regulations came in to play that the ideas of being a teenager developed.
And Ryushi exploiting Aurin’s weaknesses…all is fair in love and war…
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Post by shyviolet on Aug 26, 2007 13:15:17 GMT -5
Actually in England 21 has been the traditional coming-of-age birthday for some time. The word 'teenager' wasn't around, but the concept of someone who is neither a child nor an adult was. And legally you're an adult at 18, you can have sex at 16, but you're still a minor.
Besides, who is 'they'? Macaan gave the country to his daughter, nobody could dispute her being Princess. It also says that aides and things had been running the kingdom for her for years and she was taking on roles she wasn't prepared for because she thought turning 18 meant she was ready, when really for her she'd been sheltered and babied so much that it was just a number.
Could Macaan kill her with a thought? He could kill the Keriags, which would be mostly the same thing, but I don't think her could kill her...
If all's fair in love and war, then the ethical side of him persuing a relationship with her isn't really an issue no matter what her emotional maturity, is it?
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Post by camybaby on Aug 26, 2007 14:12:48 GMT -5
To back up what I was saying, "The distinction between childhood and adulthood varies considerably among cultural and social groups and across historical periods. Aging is not only a biological process; it is also a social process. The personal and social significance of the passage of years is shaped by the cultural age system". In the middle ages in Europe, Average life expectancy at birth was only 35." Thus, "maturity" ("“Historians also found that ancient initiations usually occurred when a boy was between the ages of twelve and fourteen, as he reached maturity" and marriage ( In upper class families girls married as young as 12 and boys as young as 14) happened at lot younger, signs which in our society is used to mark adult hood.
Though it is unclear what era it is in broken sky. Weren’t they practising fuedaliism in the Dominions before Maccan came?
And when I say “they” I was referring to Maccan, she would have to rule the way he wanted her to.
As for the ethics, I was stateinga nd asking rhetorical questions. Obvioulsy nothing is "all is fair" unless soem one has no ethics at all. Ry was cruel but so was Aurin, I don't think her subjects would be too understanding that she was just a young ruler not fully realising her actions.
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Post by shyviolet on Aug 26, 2007 14:57:49 GMT -5
It specifically defines the coming-of-age birthday as 18 in Broken Sky. Also, if maturity is a social thing more than a biological one, that would support my idea of her being more a child than an adult, because she has no social experience beyond "yes, your highness".
Obviously her subjects wouldn't be understanding, that's what makes me think she wasn't using whatever intelligence she had, which I think is because she was more a child than an adult.
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Post by camybaby on Aug 26, 2007 18:08:50 GMT -5
I really have to reread the series. What better excuse than to buy the reprints. ;D
And Aurin was 17, not much diffrence between 17 and 18, I mean she is pretty much enough of an adult. Social expriences and Aurin.... well you would have thought other nobles would be clammering to be her friend, inviting her to parties and functions etc.
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Post by lisajane on Aug 26, 2007 22:32:15 GMT -5
I thought Aurin started ruling at 13...?
You can't entirely blame a complete lack of common sense and naviety on someone who has no apparent sense of how the world works. It's like being locked in a room all your life, only to get let out as an adult and be told to behave in the adult world. You can't make anyone behave in any way than they're totally used to. I think she's simply a child stuck inside an adult's body due due to having no experiences other than being sheltered and babyied, until Ryushi comes along that it is and she then becomes a confused child.
I thought Macaan could kill her with a thought, cause if the Keriags die if Macaan thinks them to, and the Keriags die if the heartstone goes on someone other than Aurin or Calica, wouldn't Macaan have the same connection to Aurin as to the Keriags? (That just seriously confused me...) Aurin seems to think that he would kill her if she went back to him after Fane Aracq falls... though I doubt he actually would've because he figures in act three that if she were alive, why wouldn't she come back?
On the other hand, if Macaan could do that, then he could've just killed Aurin in the final battle.
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Post by shyviolet on Aug 27, 2007 2:39:51 GMT -5
I thought he would kill her by actually executing her if she went back (or so she thought). She said it would take about a day for the Keriags to die and that would be enough time for them to kill her, so maybe that would be the same as killing her with a thought.
Surey Aurin is 18, because she is the exact same age as Calica and Calica is 18 in the second part.
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Post by lisajane on Aug 27, 2007 6:09:47 GMT -5
She's 17 at the beginning of the series, but 18 by act two.
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Post by bluephoenix on Aug 31, 2007 23:01:27 GMT -5
Not gonna get in another Aurin discussion...-distracts with sexy Whist-
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Post by shyviolet on Sept 1, 2007 3:07:50 GMT -5
That reminds me, I should draw another picture of sexy Whist...
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Post by camybaby on Sept 1, 2007 10:33:41 GMT -5
Yes sexy pics of whist. Especially um *cough* revealing ones*cough*
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Post by bluephoenix on Sept 9, 2007 14:31:47 GMT -5
-sigh- I wish I could reveal Whist...jk!! But he's is amazing
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